Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

LHO's at teenhelp

to paint in a bit more detail.

an LHO on this site is a Live Help Operator.

there was so much concern about their convo that on Saturday evening, after Ki had hung up at 10:30PM her time and was started on composing her last post here, the TeenHelp LHO's were already on the phone to campus security and local town hospitals.

they didn't get anywhere, but they kept trying on Sunday too.

and i think that is another timeless example of how much love and respect her fellow counselors have for her, and it's very comforting for me to know that this was on the other side of what we've focused on, that more than one rescue ladder was being dropped into hell.

a time for joy, a time for peace.


( 16 comments — Leave a comment )
Apr. 20th, 2008 02:52 pm (UTC)
wow i never new that.
as you said, it shows how much she was loved.x
Apr. 20th, 2008 03:59 pm (UTC)
and still is.
Apr. 20th, 2008 04:43 pm (UTC)
The shock is moving a little to anger. Everyone is being so gracious and hurting so much that I loath to say much more than that. It's just frustrating when bright, giving, sensitive people are lost, that's all.


Edited at 2008-04-20 04:44 pm (UTC)
Apr. 20th, 2008 07:40 pm (UTC)
It's more than frustrating, a lot more. I might add that the TH counselors went right into some of the same anger and frustration, at the same time being so impressed that Ki was calm, peaceful, not frantic at all, and very clear about why what was coming was coming. They were alarmed, yes, but joyful that Ki was more serene than she had been for weeks. Of course that's not how things sounded over here at LJ two hours later, but her will was strong and the last thing here, as there, was her posting a wish for others and a thanks that some had healed from earlier scars.

They're concentrating on positive memories of Ki, and there are many, and those are much more powerful than the anger, in my opinion.

Also: a great icon, Mia.
Apr. 20th, 2008 07:50 pm (UTC)
I do think that's common, don't you? To find peace right before suicide. Finally, a solution to your pain. Just thinking about it now makes me feel a bit serene. In an unexpected way it makes the loss easier. At least it was her choice....she made a deliberate choice and wasn't lost in, say, an accident or murder. She chose her destiny.

Do you think she suffered before the end? I'm not asking for the gory details but I am hoping that, at least, it was quick.

Also: Thank you much!
Apr. 20th, 2008 08:32 pm (UTC)
Not only did she choose it, she chose to explain it to the closest people to her that she knew would understand and be sympathetic: her fellow counselors.

Yes, Mia, that's common. Peace and a relief from carrying psychological burdens is a very very beneficial set of feelings. You're releasing from your emotional ties to everyone, retracting them, and releasing from your own fears. You go out of the world emotionally and psychologically long before you go there physically.

Kiota had been considering suicide for a long long long time. She had gone through enough failed attempts to know how to avoid errors, and that sounds very morbid and negative and unloving, but it's not meant that way at all.

Her decision would have been to avoid physical pain too, and if you've gone through as much of that as she had also, there's a certain desensitization that happens. She also feared hospitals greatly, to the point of having severe panic attacks at just the thought of waking up inside one, so she would have done whatever it took to avoid that.

I don't have any gory details to share anyway, I simply don't know them. I think it's likely that there was absolutely no suffering in the way you and I would understand that, and that she felt an immense wave of relief on her way out, and that, yes, it was quick.

Again and again I'm replaying in my head the ideas about what would have happened if I'd postponed my flight home by one day or two. It seemed to me that she had already released from a lot of tension about things that were not getting her anywhere, and she talked to me in an excited way about professional and personal things coming up -- all this, while hanging on to life -- so I felt she had found a new path other than ending it.

I think it now develops that she had already made the other decision anyway, no matter what, so my staying would have only postponed things for that day or two, and paradoxically I would have added to her pressure instead of lessening it.

When the silence started without any information, I got as alarmed as everyone else: I thought if unconditional love was what she needed, and her roommates were ravaging her emotionally, I thought she would just go downtown with her camera and melt into her family of street people for awhile. They certainly were protective of her and loving of her.

The bottom line seems to be that nobody can make assumptions about behavior if you've known a friend in real life only small parts of four days, no matter how long your online relationship has been previously.
Apr. 21st, 2008 04:45 am (UTC)
Good to know. It makes it easier to imagine her leaving the world in peace and in, I can hope, minimal pain. Really, it's the only way I can imagine it. I lost two friends in a ghastly, high-profile incident last year and it scarred me in a very different way.

You are a great comforter. It's appreciated, can't stress that enough.
Apr. 21st, 2008 06:16 am (UTC)
Mia, you're honoring me and I'm thanking you; also, I feel that I'm a channel for a lot of things coming to me from somewhere else that are intended to pass on. I've been in so much contact here at LJ with her friends, it boggles me: but the words just seem to flow...

I think she was very much at peace. As the TH counselors said to one another, they felt she was ready to go and really did not want to be helped. They also reminded themselves that she was a pro at putting on a happy face while suffering inside.

Her preparation for her journeys was mostly in a public journal and I always found it curious that she would warn listeners / readers to "please please please don't hurt yourselves" and "don't keep it inside like I did" while she was doing exactly the opposite.

One of the toughest things for her to let go of was an argument or debate: I noticed that, even during the short time we were face-to-face, how much she delighted in connecting that way: it was not at all one person winning or one person losing the argument or discussion, just the interplay of ideas. She was very considerate and careful not to marginalize my ideas even though she might have a very different perspective.

Something comforting also happened to me last evening when the sunset was almost over: I felt something in the room change, the silence and peace was very tangible, way much more than it has felt like for a whole week now, this feeling of relaxation folded over me and into me and I was invited to just be quiet and enjoy that. There's a phrase called "background noise" which means anything like, say, a TV or iPod or awareness of what's happening on the street --- thnigs that would distract your mind from being calmly focused on ONE thing. I drifted off to a deep sleep feeling .... well, *held* would be a good way to put it.

There are easily two dozen people now in my cyber-life who were not there [save through Anna] two weeks ago. You are one of them. I felt your caring closely also [you put it, sending your shoulder to hug / lean on.] That sounds mushy and sappy but I mean it not like that, but appreciatively. I think we are creating a large circle of healing and sharing that is going to help each one of us come to terms in our own personal way. Anna is very much in that circle and around it and over it [at the same time].

It amazes me that your body can be in a lot of physical pain but if you have your attention to that turned off in your brain, you just won't feel any damage in your cranial pain centers. This effect can actually be measured with scanners [and, has been]. Of coure, "turning off your attention" can be also done with drugs, both prescription and recreational. It can be done with biofeedback, too, there's some fascinating and successful medical experiments with that --- but describing them in this post is beyond the scope of it. One technique is related to events in Israel and the main med research center for it is only 102 Km north of Ki's campus. Coincidence? ... probably, but a fascinating one [at least to me.]

Want to reflect this back to you, Mia, and really to everyone reading: I am getting the caring that you are sending and I cherish your sharing your own healing with one another and with me. This is a special, even unique, time of hope and of carrying the fire from the past, onward away from the ashes.

This is something that >>> I <<< can't stress enough ...
Apr. 22nd, 2008 04:43 am (UTC)
So interesting. I feel a fairly strong connection with you (hope that doesn't come across creepy) for any number of reasons. I think meeting you through this tragedy is, well, sobering. It forces you to knock down your walls and open yourself in ways you might not otherwise do. You know?

Anyway, my name is Patty, btw :)
Apr. 22nd, 2008 05:05 am (UTC)
Hah, Patty, ...creepy is for caterpillars.
Sobering? Me? No one ever accuses me of that!

Poot. I like "miafedup" a lot. Maybe I won't change it just yet.

"Pattyfedup" just doesn't have the same ring :/

Walls? bleh. They should be made of air mattresses instead of concrete. Then you don't have to knock them down. Just deflate them and move them somewhere else and pump them up again!
Apr. 20th, 2008 07:37 pm (UTC)
I just don't understand, though—why, how were they not able to get anywhere?!
Apr. 20th, 2008 08:06 pm (UTC)
I can't quote you all the laws and campus regs on something like this, but generally any college security force would get into very deep legal and financial shit if they released sensitive information to any person not authorized to get it: involving class schedules, addresses, phone numbers, things like that ... right on up to matters of life and death. Concerned friends calling them on the phone would automatically get the standard denials until the officials would have notified the parents / guardians / "in-case-of-emergency-please-notify" people.

Campus cops and Deans keep lists of addresses and phone numbers of people authorized in this way. [I think you prob have to put that stuff on your college app, or at least onto some registration forms when you show up for class.] They probably called the numbers they had, immediately, as soon as a positive ID was made. Then, once they had that confirmation, they would have had turned the whole incident over to the administration to handle, if not before. In many cases, colleges require their spooks to do that anyway: the admins want to be the sole authorized spokesmen / women themselves; that's what Dean Lane is for.

One reason all these walls are put up is to protect the college from giving out false information, too....as well as giving out true info to unauthorized people.

There would be legal and financial hell to pay if someone were reported to their parents / guardians to be dead or missing and they were in fact not that at all. [Let alone, emotional hell to pay.] So colleges are very very careful.

If the TH people were in fact the 'first responders' to warn about Ki's planning, that means that they were first to give security a hint of what might be going on. Standard procedure would be to identify TH as unauthorized and stonewall them and immediately send a patrol car to the dorm to check it out.

Unfortunately, murders happen on campus too --- --- [ours here had an abduction / rape / murder 1.5 years ago, not exactly on campus but near it] --- --- and her campus security would immediately also be aware that they might have a crime scene on their hands, so until they have some actual facts in front of them to tell authorized people, you bet they are going to clam up.
Apr. 21st, 2008 03:49 pm (UTC)
I'm really thankful for your posts about Ki here.
You have an ability to put everything in the right words. A lot of times these days, I feel like I just can't.
I read through my posts about Ki and it just doesn't feel right, like they don't express what I really want to say.

Part of it is probably that I still can't comprehend it - that I don't see it clearly yet.

(also english is not my first language)

Every day I wonder if I could have stopped it...why did I not try to call the college do something. I read through a lot of her posts again and there is still so much I would like to tell her. But now I will never have the chance...

I also don't really have anyone here who understands. I only have my husband here and he is very anti-suicide. He went through a rough phase in his life too, but pulled himself out. And no thinks, that people who commit suicide are weak and lazy.

he also believes that suicide doesn't get you anywhere better, but that you will be confronted with your issues until you worked them out.

I wanted to read some of Kiota's work to him. But he refused, saying that since she committed suicide, he doesn't want to hear anything. He would if she was still alive.

I have to find some time to talk to my mom about it. I know she will understand.

I gotta go now...I hope this made sense...

Thanks for being here! You are a great person.
Apr. 21st, 2008 04:09 pm (UTC)
your mom
Thanks, TT. I am glad I can help you. I hope your husband understands. Kiota is one of the most not-lazy persons I have ever known in my life. I'm glad you have your mom to talk to!

And me too.
(Deleted comment)
Apr. 23rd, 2008 03:45 am (UTC)
Hi, Fluffy, thanks for writing here to us all.

Anyone reading her LJ, especially after it was locked to friends-only, was aware of that. She was always very frank, to the point of brutality, about describing her feelings in detail.

In my opinion, the authenticity of her own emotions, plus the amazing amounts of empathy and caring she could so easily move out of her heart and onto the page or into the telephone, was what helped save the lives of many TH clients, or at least prolong them past their critical crisis point.

I hope that nothing you have read here would lead you to think that I feel your LHO's really did anything less than they were able to. It's my opinion that posters who may have grief-stricken questions are crying out in their pain. Which does not demean them one little bit. This is far from the first time Kiota approached suicide as a welcome solution, and also not the first incident where her campus police had been notified.

More than a few have said that, just like every other time in the past, they expected Kiota to hop back online, when she was ready, with a fresh post apologizing to everyone and declaring "I'm ok."

I think it is quite significant that during the time she was writing her short childhood memoir titled simply "A Childhood Memory" and more powerfully "Requiem For The Silent", she dated an LJ post forward one year [so it would stay on top of her journal] and invited new friends to join her group of readers. It's there to this day and has turned, like her last post, into a very large table of candlelit faces.

It's a great comfort to me and a lot of others here that she got herself into very long conversations with the very helpers she loved most and worked most compassionately with. The specter of her being isolated and unloved and unHelped in her last hours was excruciating for many to think about. And that simply was not the reality.

One of the things in my own local Crisis Center Hotline Training sounded very curious to me: we were told that even when we picked up the phone and heard nothing but breathing at the other end, or crying, it was important to acknowledge the call and keep the line open, staying open and offering brief calm words of encouragement between the silences. Even silence can be a vital lifeline to someone in need. That struck me as silly because I am all the activist and wanted to fill the air with lots of protective reassurances and promised vengeances. And said that, with some heat.

Our trainer simply said, "You have to learn to trust your silent presence."

In parts of her last six days when I was there for four of them, I used that --- --- when I was side-to-side with Ki, never imagining that it would turn out to be the last time we would ever meet as well as the first. That's in this physical world, of course.

Perhaps none of that is relevant to your LHO procedures. But I think to the extent that Ki could accept any comfort at all from my in-person visit, she did fully. Engaging actively and engaging silently.

She only gave herself time to write that my visit was "strange and amazing" and promised to write more about us at a later date.

Now she is using much different pathways to reach to us.

Which also require silence and an open heart.
Apr. 23rd, 2008 03:49 am (UTC)
And, also meant to say that this is a beautiful bunny icon: can almost see her nose wiggle :)
( 16 comments — Leave a comment )


kiota too late for the stars
Moonfire Marion Bridge / Brad

Latest Month

April 2019
Powered by LiveJournal.com
Designed by Naoto Kishi